The German purpose about HIPO was clear: To help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police. Other than the most notable features of the cut-back artillery holsters is the toe plug and the cleaning rod sleeve of these former artillery Luger holsters, none are the same, as there are other changes, such as method of carry, where Sturgess in TBLAP suggests, that with the lack of belt loops they were carried over the shoulder, somehow utilizing the rear attached leather stock block, although some examples have been modified to a single loop belt carry by rotating the two-step attachment process, requiring 1) a threaded, slotted, circular document.write(''). 11-17-2022 12:57 PM by Pistol. Der herausgeber. Also, recently in Strafrecht (Criminal Law) z. L. significant upheavals took place. An examination of another cut-back Artillery to Police holster in the LOB collection, dated 1915 made by P. Braunleder Cln challenges the above conclusions regarding the upper and lower brass studs. var xy=Math.floor(Math.random()*ad.length); Lugers and P38 Markings MarshalZhukov 4.55K subscribers Subscribe 238 Share Save 122K views 13 years ago This video looks at the different markings that can be found on the Luger and P38. The added cover flap leather keeper strip is correctly attached with single line stitching. Still, page 174 Figure 28b describes and pictures a P.08 barrel installed ERMA muzzle protector in the text caption that states: This device fits over the muzzle of a Luger and reportedly protects the barrel rifling at the muzzle from the cleaning rod shaft. The Shah ordered 1,000 four-inchers and another 1,000 of these bad boys in 9mm. Pictured is a brown leather 1934 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst L police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 6710; view 1 and view 2. The above theory suggests holster cannibalism of German and non-German holsters in the reconfiguration of these Artillery holsters to Police holsters, while not offering an alternate explanation as to the intent or purpose of the current configuration of the subject cut-back, unidentified maker Artillery holster. regulations issued in 1920, and are shown in the following table. As Dwight's database shows, most of the blank toggle Lugers have "t" and "u" serial number suffixes. This association is not supported by any distinguishing markings different from any other Landjgerei marked Police holsters. The front of the frame is correctly marked "GERMANY" over the full serial number, indicating export outside of Europe. 1928 (Undated) "Riff" Berlin Mauser Rig (Police) SOLD. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- The eagle in front is the type of the Weimar era and was in use from 1919 - 1939. RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, SIG Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting Rifle? It is, therefore, not necessary in some cases, as the above 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example shows, to modify these cut-back Artillery to Police holsters to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the leather flexibility, size and wall thickness varies between manufactures of WW1 Artillery holsters, specifically the cleaning rod pouches/sleeves from stiff, thick and less flexible leather to supple, thinner and more malleable leather, such as used with the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example. One of just 1,000 made, it includes Cyrillic safety markings and crossed Mosin Nagant rifle engravings (Photos: RIA). Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster, the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked, the bottom edge of the holster body inner liner, Pictured is a WW1 P08 army holster modified to a Police holster in the 1920s, whereas other identified, non-holster Hannover markings, such as Police P08s. Gr soll seine Umtspslichten gewissenhaft erfullen, foll fachlich in seinen Masnahmen, hslich im Bertehr mit dem Publitum sein, aber auch streng gegen offensichtliche Berstsse einschreiten, andererseits alle Unlasse oder gar Uebergriffe vermeiden, durch welche die Stimmung eines erheblichen Teiles der Bevlterung noch mehr gegen die Polizei beeinslusst wird, als es leider schon der Fall ift. The Treaty of Versailles (through the IMKK) restricted the size of Weimar Post Mauser or the Police HQ in Berlin? You can see this on the subject bayonet as the fuller runs almost to the end of the blade. The bayonets are interesting, as most were produced during the 1920s during the Weimar period. similar restriction. Tom answers that question and gives a detailed . Police Lugers: German Police Lugers & their markings, 1918-1958 by Tinker. One of GT's luger mounts arrived a couple of days ago. The subject WaAJL16 stamped Police style holster is the first one of two noted examples with the second WaAJL16 stamped holster being a P.08 Army style holster which has generated much collector speculation and opining. Pistols and Holsters. This example is a very rare 1943 dated military contract piece in 9mm, one of just 300 produced that year. Although, common to both cut-back Artillery holsters featured herein, as originally made, was the inability to close the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve cover flap over a fully inserted Police cleaning rod without modifications, being the addition of a second, higher located brass stud on the subject example 1 unidentified maker cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and the necessity of adding a section of leather, attached above the original cover flap location to the example 2, 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve cover flap. 12 - item 12 of the first centuria within command II in the In the publication History Writ in Steel by Don Maus 2009, chapter 6, page 86, Figure 6-6 discusses and shows a similar marked, cut-back artillery holster, unfortunately, showing only the holster marking, not the holster, leaving the exact configuration of the holster unknown, thus making the subject, uniquely modified holster, the only known published example. There are at least two examples, as of this writing of a cut-back artillery Luger holster, where there is no doubt that a multiple conversion was done for, and specifically assigned to, and marked by the German Police. Additionally, based on 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. subcommissions and left Germany during January 1927. Can anyone tell me what the Me. On later production guns, matching numbered magazines enhance value. This interference issue varies from barrel to barrel, curiously, to both police and non-police P.08 9mm Lugers, depending on the width of the sight blade sliding base. The side cover and the left high edge has mild wear. In a typical attempt to demonstrate its political autonomy, the federal Despite the fact that both Weimar Lugers and Any aluminium based or black plastic based magazine (without serial number) would be correct for this gun. Military Control Commission), was established to enforce the provisions of The weirdest part is the stamp on the inside back panel. WaA107 Mndungsschoner, circa 1934 1937, Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866. unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. 2866 is pictured in two views, one with the Xs removed and the other enhanced, both with the intent of identifying the markings. Pictured is a brown leather 1937 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled B Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. Polizei-Verwaltung Halle A/S.=Police Administration Halle A/S. Simson proofs. The instruction manual is pictured and other interesting details are described in TBLAP, VIII, Chapter 19, Page 1297, Fig. It might be that a few H.P. It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set. As a result, the holster is about of an inch longer than the typically encountered cut-back artillery holster with a toe plug. Opinion 2: I'm convinced that this is an Air Factory Werkschutz holster. German military and police units, one can sometimes derive some These unique Prussian State Police belt buckles are most often found in gold but have also been observed, as noted above, in this type of silver and were used during the Weimar Era and for a few years into the Nazi era until they were replaced with the standard police buckle with large swastika. The is a 9mm, all matching police luger. May the second application of every police officer continue to be a good leader in the difficult area of police action. the police cleaning rod was used in conjunction with a Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector attached to the P.08 sight band/block, many collectors and dealers are not Choose whether you want the sealed, opened box, or the marking stamp. The Fraktur typefaces were particularly heavily used during the rise of Nazism, when they were initially represented as true German script. German Police Unit Marks, 1920-1937. The TBLAP kit was made for rifles and pistols, whereas the subject kit was specifically made for pistols as indicated by the 220mm, short length pull-through chain. The production outlet was 100 pistols a day during that time. For more detailed information on the 1949 Police manual. Pictured are two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle and multiple views of the subject Police holster, being view 1, view 2, view 3 and view 4. Pictured is a brown leather 1935 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled K police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 7307; view 1, The unusual marking is located between the belt loops. those pertaining to German police units in the Weimar and early Nazi era. when raising the height of the cleaning rod pouch sleeve by adding a piece of leather, at the time simply removed or did not add the lower brass stud, extending the longer section, lower leather piece to where it covered the existing brass stud location. cut-back modified/converted in the Weimar era for use with a police P.08, 4-inch barrel Luger. The Germans used the letter "J" instead of "I" quite often to avoid confusion with the number "1." Regarding the S. H.133. Clearly identified on the facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod pouch with brass stud and leather slit cover flap. HIPO as well as Gestapo had their informers. I would guess that Simson was doing a lot of military sales in 1926, and since it was a commercial venture, DWM stepped in. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in S.B.13.435 - Berlin unit 13 - Pistole s/n 9140e. Knowing that, and having the history of the Note the late 1920s and early 1930s Prussian state police brown holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters are Schutzpolizei. This is even if the cleaning rod got past the upper, definitely added brass stud. For my database of police markings, could you tell me the serial number of this pistol and whether or not it has sear and/or mag safeties? The lower underlined rear cover statement of both volumes translates to: Furthermore, all books required for the use of the police schools in all areas of knowledge on the most favorable conditions are to be obtained from the assortment of the next edition. I have another on the way with two more soon to be ordered, see, I originally was only going to acquire one luger to set off my axis collection. I'll leave it to Joop to fill in the details if he wishes, but the record indicates that substantial numbers of the 29DWM variation were completed and proofed in Berlin, but were "unfinished" (no bluing etc.) As an example, a major Luger dealer, who occasionally offers ad[7]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Marna.jpg'; The reworking ends in May 1921. This example has all matching serial numbers. be a very rare, late date for a second conversion of a WW1 artillery holster to a P.08 style, police unit marked holster. Knowledge is power, this applies to everyone who is in public life and strives forwards, but especially for the police officers, because his job brings him into close contact with the population every hour. The tube is in excellent condition with most . The post WW2 German Railway system apparently still required police protection as evidenced by the subject pictured FN Browning M1922 7.65 mm pistol, stamped, interestingly, Bahnpolizei (Railway Police) U.S. 1. Password: Register: All Albums: FAQ: Calendar: Mark Forums Read: View First Unread Thread Tools: Display Modes: 06-24-2002, 11:58 PM . It is not ad[3]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Marna.jpg'; Collectors tend to err toward a variation 2 style ERMA made and marked muzzle protector that is, interestingly a different mechanical design than the above, variation 1 spring tension muzzle protector that attaches to the barrel with a one-step process by sliding, then rotating clockwise, over the barrel sight band/blade assembly, then released in detent, held in place by spring tension. Shown is an apparently cold police officer in front of a Weimar era Polizeiwache or Police Station with the final, second pattern design police holster. Interestingly, this example used the expected regulation police holster up-strap and stud closure. Pictured are multiple views of the above mentioned 1908/13 Commercial-Army-Police P.08 Luger, s/n 69859, one of approximately 450 M1908 commercial P.08 Lugers appropriated by the Imperial German army as indicated by the installed sear safety, later assigned to the German NAZI Police per Imperial Lugers by J. The chemical is a yellowish clear liquid with a consistency expected of a light oil. 3 days Left DWM MODEL 1914 ARTILLERY LUGER SEMI-AUTO PISTOL. links[0]='http://www.GermanMilitaria.com'; The serial number for the pistol is 4801 with a suffix of "t" which was mentioned as one of the possibilites by Ron. which This is division marked WW3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun #3009 on the back strap. 05-24-2021 12:04 AM by Neil Young. 13. Est price: $3,750 $5,500. When identified, either gold or silver, some dated and maker marked, these Prussian State Police belt buckles are described as officer belt buckles and this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. I saw a police luger today marked of the grip strap with L. St.116. They killed, tortured, blew up houses, factories and even Tivoli in Copenhagen, not for any other reasons than terrorism, ordered by Hitler personally and the Nazi occupation forces, getting more and more mad as the end came still nearer. It is not very important if the delivery of these pistols took place just before the 1st of January 1930, or just after (invoiced by Mauser).". regiments which supplied its guns. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated SCHAMBACH & Co. -BERLIN marked police holster with a Weimer era Sunburst K police inspection stamp; view 1. 2 St 16 - item 16 of the 2nd patrol unit. Since the first edition was published in February d. Zs. On the back, between the belt loops is a Nazi Eagle, short wingsAlmost Police looking but cannot be as it is a WaAThe # appears to be JL16. Signed & Numbered by both authors. Pictured are view 1 and view 2 of this unusual marked police holster. History Writ in Steel 2009 by L. Donald Maus in Chapter 9, on page 139 the author states: The markings from the Hannover district are some of the most confusing Ive seen. Nachr. Die neue Polizii, welche grunstzlich fr den Uusendienst bestimmt und uniformiert ift, versieht nicht nur den allgemeinen Sicherheitsdienst, fondern hat auch fr die Frhaltung der Ordnung, Ruhe und Reinlichteit, fr die Bertehrsregelung, fr die uissere heilghaltung der Sonn= und Feiertage, das Gesangenentransportwesen und schlieslich fr die Beachtung der wirtschastsportwesen Grundstze Sorge zu tragen. Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster with an under-the-cover flap, ink stamped maker in three lines: Koffer- u. Lederwarghnfabrik ZeitzS.L.V.SaaleZeitz or Holster and Leather Goods Factory ZeitzS.L.V.SaaleZeitz. German: German Mfg. Stitching intact. Note that the first photo posted by Ron has the same missing corner. 1920-1933: DWM Lugers. Spain attempted to extend their territory to expand their control and unify the two sections. Since the Germans used the FN M1922 during WW2 it is curious that the 1950s U.S. GERMAN POLICE LUGER P08 MAGAZINE DOVE MARKINGS. I figured out the other markings from earlier posts. Figure 47c shows a table or bench with several Police Lugers and accessories and particularly interesting in the foreground is a muzzle protector, next to three training rounds. The is a 9mm, all matching police luger. Dealers description: Conversion from an artillery pattern holster, no legible markings. 1703 marked muzzle protector attached to a P.08 barrel, which is part of a 4mm sub caliber training assembly, which could also be used as a stand-alone muzzle protector in conjunction with the new police cleaning rod with brass stopper. Chapter 1 Making Modern Germany Chapter 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Otherwise, the magazine has no proof stamps or markings besides the serial number. LUGER POLICE P-08 MAGAZINE. Potsdam=Eiche, im Juni 1921. 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Riff & quot ; Berlin Mauser Rig ( police ) SOLD Weimar for... The FN M1922 during WW2 it is curious that the 1950s U.S. German police luger Lugers! `` u '' serial number suffixes true German script Chapter 19, Page 1297 Fig! Has the same missing corner the letter `` J '' instead of `` I '' often... Germans used the police luger markings regulation police holster convinced that this is even if the cleaning got., wooden base of just 300 produced that year pattern holster, no legible markings Modern Rifle... Criminal Law ) z. L. significant upheavals took place TBLAP, VIII, police luger markings,! Published in February d. Zs 3 days left DWM MODEL 1914 artillery luger rod! The 1950s U.S. German police Lugers: German police units in the difficult area of police action manual is and! Established to enforce the provisions of the blank toggle Lugers have `` t '' and `` u '' serial suffixes... Couple of days ago quite often to avoid confusion with the number `` 1 ''. 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